So yes, Brent, please comment on this phenomenon. Thats something each person must decide for themselves, but Ive made peace with my own interpretation.. The gift of your ADHD shines. I remember how the church/BYU was trying to treat this as a non-issue. 2) It seems to me that most of the critiques in the 21st century arent recent developments, rather they already existed for sometimes decades (credit to Brodie and the Tanners for that). The 7th East Press is one of the great university newspapers; truly the stars aligned when this group got together. Since unit growth of the church is now in decline and growing slower than U.S. and world population growth, how do you see the future of the church and its doctrines? The Book of Abraham? She also noted that after JS none of the preceding Church leaders really got what he was trying to do/teach in this realm. Liked by Brent Metcalfe Experience Practice Lead - Mergers and Acquisitions/Investment Group and Consultant Backswath Management Sep 2022 - Present6 months Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Seeking New. After years of palling around with anti-Mormon apostates (e.g. None of this means that believing scholars and secular scholars have to treat each other poorly or that we cannot respect (even in the midst of serious disagreement) each others work. 1) In your opinion, which group is currently winning in their arguments regarding the truth claims of church, the critics or the apologetics? They buried the Mclellin diaries also.similar thingdidnt like the content. Would a hypothesis like that hold any water? hendrick motorsports hats; brent metcalfe excommunicated Is there going to be a part 3? The Book of Abraham was a problem on my mission too, but we had to just ignore that issue, and wait for an answer. I wouldnt presume that Brendt is unaware of this and that his worldview does not follow from this hes well read. Watch the full match. Movies. She is professor emeritus of history at Read more Metcalfe subsequently resigned from the Seventh East Press and told Sunstone that he would no longer write for them. pigella miraculous ladybug power. Part 1 of the interview stuck much closer to home for me. Serious insight and analysis of the religion Im trying to fit into my new, authentic life. In these two episodes we discuss: The aftermath of the Mark Hofmann bombings, and Brent's excommunication for his research into the Book of Mormon, and. Talk about ADD. I had no idea what your beliefs were and it piqued my interest in part 1 where you talked about scripture being inspirational yet often times not historical. He has also served in the United States Air Force (Air National Guard) since 2004. Im not excited anymore. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Brent, are you still working on a Book of Abraham book? Im definitely a fan. I happened to not do soat least, not yet. Thanks again for your contribution to Mormon Studies and particularly for your diplomatic engagement with your critics. It is something that has fascinated me, and this Metcalfe interview did not disappoint!!! Few people had more of a front-row seat than Brent Metcalfe to the goings-on surrounding Mark Hofmann, the Salamander Letter, and the tragic events of October 1985 what would be dubbed as the Mormon Murders.. He also talks about his early forays into Mormon studies. funeral directors southend; penalty charge notice costs; johns manville headquarters address; Hello world! Its likely that our paths could have crossed. saw heaven open, and Jesus at the right hand of God, and the Heavenly hosts surrounding the throne, adoring the Father and the Son in the most sublime strains, (Hibbard, _Memoirs_, 181; cf. Growing up I only had positive interactions with his beautiful wife and kids. You didnt elaborate on that interpretation. Seventh East Press. My good friend Matt Christensen digitized the 7th East Press and was kind enough to allow Signature Books to make it available on their incredible digital library. I need help with casting ZEE5 on my TV. A member of the LDS Church reports he was excommunicated for apostasy on February 2nd, 2013. This was an excellent broadcast! I was nervous that you belonged to the catalyst crowd and relieved to hear your developed belief, or non belief. I have never heard of the description that its like talking to someone in the airport on their cell phone, with all the background noise. Our interview continues tonight!!! It is important that we be critical thinkers and examine the sources providing information, in the same way we would want to know the credentials of someone dispensing medical advice, car repair advice etc. To those people like me, however, who find themselves on the butt end of his speeches, may consider him to come across as aggressive, brash and unsympathetic. His contributions, reflections, thoughts and insights represent some of the most important contributions in the history of not just Mormon Stories, but Mormonism in general. The 7th East Press was a gem. Are you generally satisfied with the way the Mark Hofmann affair has been portrayed in the media and in the various books? From your perspective, what are the 3-5 best pieces of evidence for the historicity of the bom? As an atheist I am not without my own inconvenient truths. I think we ought to be okay with these questions, and not automatically defensive. by | Jun 23, 2022 | replace flower bed with gravel | pickleball courts on staten island | Jun 23, 2022 | replace flower bed with gravel | pickleball courts on staten island brent metcalfe excommunicated. If I applied Vatican II to the full breadth of Catholicism, I clearly misspoke (Im not even sure why I would make such a sweeping claim, so I am a tad mystified). It didnt have anything to do with church history or anything you would read in something like the CES letter, but was instead a realization and acceptance that its not me, its the church followed by a complete collapse of everything. I have some insights into that. sorry, the book is called The Joseph Smith Egyptian Papyri, Not a question but I would very much like to hear Brents response to Kerry Muhlesteins recent FAIRMormon Conference presentation on the Book of Abraham. Now, along with all of the other historical and literary problems, including DNA evidence, we are suppose to accept it on feelings and the spirit.like all religions do with their own faiths.and be excited about sharing this book with our friends! Released: Sep 13, 2014 Format: Podcast episode It shows how establishment Apologists from FAIR and Interpreter and the rest of the former FARMS crew only care about your academic achievements even if you actually do do serious research on the Book of Abraham. Or even presenting the center view? I especially connected with his comments on ADD. Elbert once quipped, The Open Door Club has become the 7th East Press!. We were both greenies at the same time. Its very sunny in London today and Ive listened too all eleven hours of this interview. But being new to the church and so unacquainted with church matters and such things I was not much help. A man with boldness of speech, and is often cited by members as one of the favourite apostles to hear from. In his response, he controversially included an encrypted message spelling out "Metcalfe is Butthead." [4] He grew up a member of the LDS Church in a devout family, and served a mission for the LDS Church. I've debated whether or not I should write about this, as I'm well aware the reception may be inflammatory, however it's something I'd like to get off my chest. Why didnt the Lord reveal to the the prophet that Hofmann was going to kill? http://mormonstories.org/brent-metcalfe-hofmann-bombings-excommunication-book-of-mormon/, Scan this QR code to download the app now. Twitter. Once you start to deconstruct Mormonism, the next step is Christianity, and then the existence of a god, or not There are plenty of stops along that road to hang your hat, but the fastest growing belief system around the existence of god, is atheism. In it, Metcalfe himself wrote an essay that was the first to advance the Mosiah priority theory, or that Joseph Smith began dictating the Book of Mormon from the Book of Mosiah. Brent Metcalf's last collegiate wrestling match was a highly anticipated one. Hi, was wondering if Brent is still available to respond to my train of thought above? "Everybody that ever dealt with Mark Hofmann was a victim of his, and of his deception, and I think it's just kind of a . What are your views about these books and how some contemporary Mormon scholars approach them as catalytic for revelation, though they may not specifically be historical? She was excommunicated for it and it was ironic that her uncle, David O'McKay, was a member of the twelve apostles at the time (and later became Prophet.) But once Mormonism got involved, it turned everything upside down. Brent's review of challenges to traditional approaches to the Book of Mormon. What academic qualifications does Mr. Metcalfe have to authoritatively speak on subjects like the historicity of the Book of Abraham? Follow @BHMetcalf. In Part 3, Brent discusses the aftermath of the Hofmann murders, including the trial and Hofmanns eventual plea deal. Youve used it well Brent. Brent, a sophomore at the University of Iowa, completed a very hectic. https://egyptianalphabetandgrammar.blogspot.com/. He could have never imagined the true extent of Marks crimes, though. Yes! Do you attend church anyplace else? And how was it working with Mr. Ritner? Ive always wondered if my church record was blighted in some way. I thought Brents response to this question very touching and informative and dont see that his research should be discredited. When Brent Metcalfe compiled a book of essays last year suggesting that Mormonism's founding scripture wasn't the ancient history it purports to be, he expected some criticism. Simply put, I think JSs BoAbr project is an example of JSs *sincerity*, not his fraudulence. And much was going on. Honestly, incredible work. We have to learn to get along and improve our conditions wherever we are and it is a much more difficult task because of all the varied belief systems prevalent in the world. We hope to rerecord sometime next week. After all, he was the one who had introduced him to Steve Christensen, the first of Marks victims. [7] The LDS Church fired Brigham Young University professor David Wright for his contribution to the volume, and excommunicated both Wright and Metcalfe shortly thereafter. Thank you for sharing it with me. The Gift of the Mormon Faith Crisis Podcast. Brent Metcalf Resides in Modesto, CA Includes Address (1) Phone (1) See Results Statistics for all 3 Brent Metcalf results: 50 yrs AVERAGE AGE 100% are in their 50s, while the average age is 50. Thanks again Brent! In fact, it may just be possible that I stood right next to Brent during our official kick off meeting, when Elbert invited his brother Lyle to give us all a magic show. Long question, sorry ! What did they accomplish by kicking any of you out? Do you still believe in God, and what type of God? african american gastroenterologist near me; district 36 lofts; how to turn off scan text on iphone 12 On the term translation, JS promoted his ancient texts as translations in the traditional sense. That said, I have to wonder what planet hes living on when he says that Catholicism has been reinvigorated in the post Vatican II era. Wrestling for coach Roy Hall at Davison High School in Michigan, Metcalf finished as arguably the #1 overall recruit with a career record of 228-0 with . They even go so far as to claim that Zarahemla was directly across the river from Nauvoo, and that the waters of mormon are Big Springs, MO. Thanks Brent for your sincerity, honesty and pleasant demeanor in which you talk about these things. She was in the middle of her frustrations with the MTC (and some of you know the story). Excellent question. The church history claims there was a great uproar about this youth that claimed to have a vision of God. [4] His supervisor removed the probation, but on April 8 Metcalfe's employment was terminated. Wow John, what an interview. That piqued my interest in the whole sordid affair. It was awful so stressful. There was an overall feeling that he just had it together. Lex, the recommendation by Andrew is a good resource. It all depends on the depth of study one does. 0% MARRIED In Part 3, Brent discusses the aftermath of the Hofmann murders, including the trial and Hoffman's eventual plea deal. Published by on October 31, 2021. Did John take the tapes home to show his wife? Yeah for Signature Books, Matt Christensen, and the internet!!!!! What a fascinating glimpse. "The Mormon murders: A true story of greed, forgery, deceit, and death." Please, God, let this podcast inspire someone to produce a talk show called, Hot-tubbing with Mark Hoffman! Certainly the reality, was different than the accepted narrative. Coming! How was Christensen reimbursed or rewarded by the Church for his document ventures? In fact, Brent was with Mark the night before he caused the first explosion. On acquiring a PhD, after a year of university, apart from a lack of finances, I quickly noticed that the degree factory isnt a reflection on ones intelligence. I like Steve Christensens view on excommunication. I very much appreciated the beautiful memories and great stories Brent shared about what a remarkable and kind person Steve was. Perhaps she remembers me, the useless home teacher. 1. Unintended consequences here we come! I will start my question with a short story to add some perspective. Im pretty sure I was standing next to Maxine. And you are an example. Good clarification, Doubting Thomas (if that is your real name), :) I have no reason to believe that Jerald Tanner attempted official contact, so Im not sure who Darrick is referring to or what the method of communication entailed. And theres no way that you can change it. In the highly anticipated follow up to our first interview, Brent Metcalfe continues his story. I hope to move on some day as well. I would include many of the arguments given by the critics as well. It would yield some satisfaction to me, if my misery can be a cause of happiness to others; but when I came to the place of prayer, had kneeled down, and closed my eyes, with my hands uplifted toward the heavens, I saw Jesus Christ at the right hand of God looking down upon me, and God the Father looking upon him. He was going to have him thrown out of the church. Looking forward to the interview! I love the podcasts. What has been the ramifications to your excommunication among other family members? Jerald articulated his concerns in one of his ministrys publications. Thank you as well for your research, especially your work on New Approaches to the Book of Mormon. Yes, because remember that the paradigm speaking through Mikes words is not just representative of him. Brent Metcalfe is definitely one of my favorite interviewees ever on Mormon Stories Podcast. I was there at the very beginning. Let me be equally clear that I dont believe that the BoAbr is an authentic translation of the papyri he possessed. Is it paramount to understand all of these religious histories and come to terms with them or, Brant for people like you and me, would it be better to turn our talents toward uncovering and deciphering Gobekli Tepe, a stone temple complex built 12,000 years ago at the end of the last ice age in Turkey, built by the Watchers of the Book of Enoch and the Anunnaki gods of Sumerian tradition? Copyright 2005 - 2023 | Mormon Stories. Career Two-time NCAA and Big Ten Champion three-time all-American first wrestler in Big ten history to earn Outstanding Wrestler at the conference meet two straight years (2008, 2009) career winning percentage of .972 (108-3) ranks second all-time at Iowa 2008 Dan Hodge Trophy winner 2008 Jesse Owens Big Ten . But I feel that sometimes secular scholars, perhaps in an effort to be diplomatic, perhaps for other reasons, underestimate and understate the inevitability of open conflict with a religious tradition they study. But are there any podcasts that go deeper in to Gnostics, esoteric teachings, metaphysics, etc. The insight into the many corners of Mormonism important to us here was delicious. Once the Catholic scholar feels freed from the ostensible constraints of Catholic theology, it is questionable to what degree his scholarship is distinctively Catholic in the first place. Awesome. Thanks for the clarification. [] author and editor of numerous articles and two Signature Books titles, was interviewed by John Dehlin for the Mormon Stories podcast recently. As a teenager and still TBM I read some books on the Hoffman Salamander Letter and events surrounding it. I shared this source with Mike Quinn when he was writing _Early Mormonism and the Magic World View_. Growing up in the Eleventh Ward, you seemed very different than the Terry, Larry and Scott group. Why have you distanced yourself from actively publishing and engaging topics on forums as you did in years past? I felt like somehow I was responsible for what had happened. I havent listened to MS for several years now, but with Brent being interviewed I couldnt miss this, and I wasnt disappointed. I just got done reading the book Mormon murders. Many of the writers did become illustrious personalities, exactly as you point out. Interested to hear about your mission, did you serve in Wandsworth at all? This podcast inspired me to read the book Mormon Murders. One question though, has Hoffman done any interviews since being in prison? ping anser putter 85068 value; italian village commission. This unleashed a veritable deluge of Catholic contributions to modern biblical scholarship. Cultural Context Preceding the Book of Mormon, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/493__Brent_Metcalfe_Part_1.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/494__Brent_Metcalfe_Part_2.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-497-BrentMetcalfePt3.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-498-BrentMetcalfePt4.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-499-BrentMetcalfePt5.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-499b-BrentMetcalfePt6.mp3, https://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/trackingconfessions1.htm, Signature Books Mormon News, October 1317. During my 7779 mission I served in two London areas, living first in Kilburn Park and later in Wimbledon. Im glad you found some of my remarks useful and thanks for the kind comments. So sorry Maxine! Maxine Hanks was also in my ward. 52K views 2 years ago Iowa's Brent Metcalf took down Ohio State's Lance Palmer in a thrilling title bout at 149 pounds in the 2010 NCAA wrestling championships. The portion you quoted is an example of what I dub a conversion epiphany (as I mentioned in the podcast). Now, in the wake of 200 years of such scholarship, the Bible doesnt hold up much better than the Book of Mormon. Im not saying you need to have spiritual experiences to validate your work by any means if the facts are facts, but a higher power confirmation always helps. So, considering all that they had been through, when Mark was named a suspect, Brent didnt even think twice before defending his friend on television. The confessionals in the documentary of Hofmann's associates, such as Shannon Flynn, Brent Metcalf and George Throckmorton are captivating. When discussing some of the details surrounding the Book of Abraham, he mentioned the Tale of Onidas and Kitumen. I have never heard of that before and cannot find anything about it. This was very similar to my experience. It seems like in the aftermath of the bombings, combined with his zeal to argue the history of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe was excommunicated from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Read More: Where is Terri Christensen Now? Please let us know. Best wishes, Brent! They claim that it occurred here in the USA siting scriptures and other things Joseph smith said. The time has come to really dig in and discover our true human beginnings without religious bias. Brent provided a detailed account of the Mark Hoffman story with a perspective that we seldom hear. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Sandra was criticized by some Mormon Stories listeners for not being as critical of Christianity as she was of Mormonism. Do you have any idea what his views are now about the church, what he did, etc.? But Brent seems to do just the opposite. Brent Metcalf (born July 14, 1986) is an American freestyle wrestler who formerly competed in the international circuit for the United States of America. I just discovered this on my own I bought every single issue of the 7th East Press, and was so disappointed that I missed picking up the final April Fools issue which appeared around campus after the edict banning it from being sold on campus. LDS was newly brought to her by a missionary before me. He remains an enigma. Copyright 2005 - 2023 | Mormon Stories. I was only 8 when Steve died, so I just remember his smiling face and that everyone, especially my parents, just loved him. I know about the September 6 and there are others. But such intellectual issues didnt play a role in my failure of faith. He was basically threatening his entire existence. (paraphrased and likely not the actual quote from Murder Among the Mormons, Netflix documentary). 2005, page 147, 180, Sillitoe, L., & Roberts, A. D. (1988). Until Vatican II, many scholars felt hamstrung by the churchs dogma on the Bible and related theological issues. Brent Metcalf. On the latest episode of Mormon Book Reviews Steven Pynakker interviews one of the most important scholars of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe. Tom, have you considered allowing John to interview you? And it leaves this distrust in LDS leaders hanging with the viewer. Vol. In secret, behind closed doors, who were they really betting on? We should also mention that he has since been a key speaker at a conference hosted by Ex-Mormon Foundation and has given several interviews where he has detailed his lifes ups and downs. An anonymous source reported that Roy Doxey, then the director of church correlation, wanted to know about the papers Metcalfe was studying at the Church Historical Library, which were on Elias Smith and others. My mind was calm and at peace with God through the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sin of the world. [4], In 1993 Metcalfe organized a group of scholars to publish a series of essays that sought to apply techniques of higher criticism to the Book of Mormon. October 20, 2021. Just curious if there is a link that has information about what they discovered and why they were ex'd or disparaged. I did enjoy the balance that your podcast once stood for; miss the balance. They are in a tough spot. But before Brent could truly move on, he had to deal with the emotional turmoil of knowing that he was associated with Mark Hofmann. Great interview. They have shown time and time again that that is all that matters to them. Is having spiritual experiences while doing what some may view as critical research on the Book, when you know there may be opposing views to your work, grounds for also having these feelings? If God will ultimately judge us all, why are mere mortals judging mortals, with the illusion of acting for God? The look of Jesus on me removed the burden of my sins, while he spoke these words, Be faithful until death and this shall be thy place of rest. I never had seen Jesus Christ before, nor heard his voice, nor ever had a sense of his intercession at the right hand of God for me till now (Billy Hibbard, _Memoirs of the Life and Travels of B. Hibbard, Minister of the Gospel_ [New York: J. C. Totten, 1825], 23). If you were to write a book, what aspects of the Hofmann story would you focus on? Boy, what a chilling conclusion. Who does he think the last bomb was meant for? Brent Metcalfe borrows the titles of a few works on literary and narrative theory and then concludes that such theory under mines the historical claims of the Book of Mormon. This has to be one of my top 10 favorite Mormonstories podcasts. Thank you, I didnt know about that info. going back ten+ years when we first interacted online (message boards), but this interview gave me many more insights. Its done. Metcalfe believed that his firing was because of a few people in church leadership who perceived him as a threat, even though he viewed his own work as apologetic and not scholarly. And I went through a very long phase of just wishing that I had never been born.. I was a writer for 7th East Press. Please share your feeling about this observation as well, and how this may affect future missionary work, growth of the church and most importantly the individual peace of mind of its members. brent metcalfe excommunicated. Did you ever suspect there was something not quite right with Mark Hoffman? A question for Brent, What are your thoughts on your research of the book of Abraham? And Im speaking as a believer- in the very traditional sense- in the Christian interpretation of the world. The lengthy, five-part series covers Metcalfes childhood in Mormonism, his mission, his time []. [9][4], After being fired from his job in security for the LDS Church for his writings, Metcalfe worked first for Steve Christensen and later for Mark Hofmann. Thanks! Unresolved: Release in which this issue/RFE will be addressed. Its probably best to start over when these things happen, rather than just continuing where you left off. It is not possible for me to tell how long I remained in that situation, as everything earthly was gone from me for some time. The problems he discovered lay at Josephs feet, but he threw out the baby with the bath water as if the success of Christianity rode on the success of Joseph Smith. this was fascinating, and I havent got to part 2 yet! I think youre referring to what has collectively come to be known as the Michigan Relics. James E Talmage wrote quite a bit about them, back in the day. D&C 76:2021). Metcalfe is on the editorial board of the John Whitmer Historical Association. When you described Hoffmans futile attempts to delay the inevitable meeting where his house of cards would come tumbling down I couldnt help but compare it to the decades-long quest among some of the church leadership to keep the brand pure by weeding out doubters.